Qur'an and Science

[Geri]

So, let me ask you a question.
How, do you prove that this ''god'' exist?
No theories, no common senses, i want a proof that anyone can see it and believe it. If it exists then why didn't it come in front of me saying ''yo what's up, i exist''?
Answer this, please.

It's a topic regarding Qur'an and Science. Please ask such questions on this topic and hopefully someone will reply you.

So, as far as i understand, you don't have an answer.

[GreaTSaN]

So, let me ask you a question.
How, do you prove that this ''god'' exist?
No theories, no common senses, i want a proof that anyone can see it and believe it. If it exists then why didn't it come in front of me saying ''yo what's up, i exist''?
Answer this, please.

It's a topic regarding Qur'an and Science. Please ask such questions on this topic and hopefully someone will reply you.

So, as far as i understand, you don't have an answer.

Since when man of science started assuming things himself? I asked you to put your question on that appropriate topic and you just assumed that I don't have an answer. Even if I were to give you answer here, would you accept it? As you ask many questions about God and his existence then I can also bring up many questions about your very own existence in a much better way but this is not an appropriate topic to talk about this nor I am willing to spam my topic with questions out of subject (as I mentioned on the start). Please do not reply here with questions out of subject. Move your question to this topic.

[GreaTSaN]

just words twisted and turned and translated accordingly.

What happened bro? Looks like you are out of words or not in mood to accept it as a miracle LOL
viewtopic.php?f=70&t=88355&p=873760#p873760

[[Lsrcr]Oggy]

just words twisted and turned and translated accordingly.

What happened bro? Looks like you are out of words or not in mood to accept it as a miracle LOL
viewtopic.php?f=70&t=88355&p=873760#p873760

I didn't get time to make long replies.
Also, I'm waiting for your reply in the other topic.
Don't worry I'll reply soon when I'm free

[GreaTSaN]

just words twisted and turned and translated accordingly.

What happened bro? Looks like you are out of words or not in mood to accept it as a miracle LOL
viewtopic.php?f=70&t=88355&p=873760#p873760

I didn't get time to make long replies.
Don't worry I'll reply soon when I'm free

I appreciate it.

[Gangsta19]

There is proof otherwise I wouldn't be saying such a thing. I don't rely on assumptions and my answers are based on research. There is plenty of proofs and first and foremost is the mistakes. If you read Bible, you'd find many verses contradiction each other and I'd soon create a topic on that too but I want to ask you what is your assumption based on that Quran is copied?
Where's the proof? Do you have documented facts about the scriptures changing in time,or are you basing this on the things you've heard from mullahs and other high rank religious leaders?
Also take the two books and compare their chapters one by one and you will see the similarity.

Oh that is why Qur'an contains many miracles which are so accurate with the modern science.To quote: " Science is the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment." There is no documented data on the Quran,there are no documented experiments on the Quran,the Quran's wording is not scientific,it's poetic,don't get them mixed up. It's just when you go deep, just as you go with other things, you'd realize this. The above miracles which I've mentioned cannot be the word of man and if you think so then bring your proofs rather than being irrational and false claims. I brought up my argument,if the Quran had mentioned carbon as the base element of lifeforms then it would be proof of higher knowledge,since carbon at that time was not known to be in ALL lifeforms.Thus the writer of the Quran took water as the main element.I'm very open in this case and when people say that Qur'an is not a word of God then I hear them and listen to them on why they think that. If there is something which I've left in Qur'an then tell me and I'd listen to you rather than arguing blindly. People claim that there are many contradictions in Qur'an and most of them are answered on my other topic which is "Contradictions in Qur'an". Furthermore, I'd soon post some more contradictions (which were thought to be contradictions) but now modern science confirms that.

If you're sincere enough in this topic, we can have a conversation freely.

Here are the verses with translation:

1.In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth. אבְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ:
2.Now the earth was astonishingly empty, and darkness was on the face of the deep, and the spirit of God was hovering over the face of the water. בוְהָאָ֗רֶץ הָֽיְתָ֥ה תֹ֨הוּ֙ וָבֹ֔הוּ וְח֖שֶׁךְ עַל־פְּנֵ֣י תְה֑וֹם וְר֣וּחַ אֱלֹהִ֔ים מְרַחֶ֖פֶת עַל־פְּנֵ֥י הַמָּֽיִם:
3.And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. גוַיֹּ֥אמֶר אֱלֹהִ֖ים יְהִי־א֑וֹר וַֽיְהִי־אֽוֹר:
4.And God saw the light that it was good, and God separated between the light and between the darkness. דוַיַּ֧רְא אֱלֹהִ֛ים אֶת־הָא֖וֹר כִּי־ט֑וֹב וַיַּבְדֵּ֣ל אֱלֹהִ֔ים בֵּ֥ין הָא֖וֹר וּבֵ֥ין הַחֽשֶׁךְ:
5.And God called the light day, and the darkness He called night, and it was evening and it was morning, one day. הוַיִּקְרָ֨א אֱלֹהִ֤ים | לָאוֹר֙ י֔וֹם וְלַח֖שֶׁךְ קָ֣רָא לָ֑יְלָה וַֽיְהִי־עֶ֥רֶב וַֽיְהִי־בֹ֖קֶר י֥וֹם אֶחָֽד:
6.And God said, "Let there be an expanse in the midst of the water, and let it be a separation between water and water." ווַיֹּ֣אמֶר אֱלֹהִ֔ים יְהִ֥י רָקִ֖יעַ בְּת֣וֹךְ הַמָּ֑יִם וִיהִ֣י מַבְדִּ֔יל בֵּ֥ין מַ֖יִם לָמָֽיִם:
7.And God made the expanse and it separated between the water that was below the expanse and the water that was above the expanse, and it was so. זוַיַּ֣עַשׂ אֱלֹהִים֘ אֶת־הָֽרָקִיעַ֒ וַיַּבְדֵּ֗ל בֵּ֤ין הַמַּ֨יִם֙ אֲשֶׁר֙ מִתַּ֣חַת לָֽרָקִ֔יעַ וּבֵ֣ין הַמַּ֔יִם אֲשֶׁ֖ר מֵעַ֣ל לָֽרָקִ֑יעַ וַֽיְהִי־כֵֽן:
8.And God called the expanse Heaven, and it was evening, and it was morning, a second day. חוַיִּקְרָ֧א אֱלֹהִ֛ים לָֽרָקִ֖יעַ שָׁמָ֑יִם וַֽיְהִי־עֶ֥רֶב וַֽיְהִי־בֹ֖קֶר י֥וֹם שֵׁנִֽי:
9.And God said, "Let the water that is beneath the heavens gather into one place, and let the dry land appear," and it was so. טוַיֹּ֣אמֶר אֱלֹהִ֗ים יִקָּו֨וּ הַמַּ֜יִם מִתַּ֤חַת הַשָּׁמַ֨יִם֙ אֶל־מָק֣וֹם אֶחָ֔ד וְתֵֽרָאֶ֖ה הַיַּבָּשָׁ֑ה וַֽיְהִי־כֵֽן:

Umm... where does it mention about the Big bang, hmm let me see... "LET THERE BE LIGHT!" ? expansion of heavens,And God made the expanse and it separated between the water that was below the expanse and the water that was above the expanse, and it was so.
And God called the expanse Heaven, and it was evening, and it was morning, a second day smoke which Qur'an tells us? Maybe I can't see so point out the verse in bold letters.

Just before I end, here are some verses from Bible which I would be happy if you could answer me:

And the devil, taking Him up onto a high mountain, showed unto Him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. - Luke Chapter 4 Verse 5

Again, the devil took Him up onto an exceeding high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and the glory of them. - Mathew Chapter 4 Verse 8

So in your opinion what is this? Since when we're able to see the whole world from a high mountain? This is only possible when the Earth is flat and with some amazing vision.

The word "world" has multiple-meanings,in this case the "world" he sees is the entire region of that country/place.Hence the phrases like "the animal world" or "English speaking world" and so on,that doesn't include every centimeter of the planet.

[GreaTSaN]

The word "world" has multiple-meanings,in this case the "world" he sees is the entire region of that country/place.Hence the phrases like "the animal world" or "English speaking world" and so on,that doesn't include every centimeter of the planet.

Answer moved to an appropriate topic. Here viewtopic.php?f=70&t=88427&p=874331#p874331.

[GreaTSaN]

Where's the proof? Do you have documented facts about the scriptures changing in time,or are you basing this on the things you've heard from mullahs and other high rank religious leaders?
Also take the two books and compare their chapters one by one and you will see the similarity.

I've just created another topic giving you the contradictions and mistakes in Bible. Bible is contradicting itself in many verses. I do my own research rather than relying on mullas and high rank religious leaders. In Islam, there's no religious leader whatsoever. What comparison you're talking about? Bible is twice as size of Qur'an. I do agree couple of things match with Qur'an, Bible and many other religious scripture because what I believe that all scriptures came from same source but as I mentioned above due to hands of man on other scriptures, they're corrupted. Bring me the verses which you think are clear copying of Bible if you're truthful.

To quote: " Science is the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment." There is no documented data on the Quran,there are no documented experiments on the Quran,the Quran's wording is not scientific,it's poetic,don't get them mixed up.

I've already posted five miracles above with clear meanings which are accurate with modern science. Truly Qur'an is not a science book but a book of Signs. It gives mankind signs to believe. Just a question, have you read Qur'an?

I brought up my argument,if the Quran had mentioned carbon as the base element of lifeforms then it would be proof of higher knowledge,since carbon at that time was not known to be in ALL lifeforms.Thus the writer of the Quran took water as the main element.

As mentioned earlier, Qur'an is not a book of Science that it should tell each and everything Science tells us. It is a book of Signs which gives signs for mankind to believe. Water is indeed the main element in which there's no doubt. Let me slide this one for you (even though I know it is a miracle) so what would you say about other miracles which I mentioned above?

[[Lsrcr]Oggy]

Oh so the verse indirectly means the earth is spherical from one of the parts of one of the words in it? Since you are looking for deep meanings, let's get deep. As you said, I asked Wikipedia and all it said was the word "Kawwara" means to roll up or to coil. The word "spherical" is not mentioned anywhere. Something can be coiled on a cylindrical surface as well. The word 'round' is just the shape of the cross-section of a shape. What's said in the verse is also applicable for a flat surface. Imagine a table and raise a lamp around the table slowly. One side of the table will be in the dark and the other side in the light. Besides, it's been mentioned at various places in Quran that the earth is flat (2:149, 2:187, 17:78, 88:20 and 71:19). From all this, it's very clear that the writer had no idea that the earth is spherical in shape but flat.

Glad that now you're looking into deep words and meanings. Just before I explain you something, I'd like you to understand what is classical Arabic:

Arabic is a root driven language, and you can base your understanding of a word using its root. You can also understand what message is being conveyed using the root of a single word or a combination of words. You can also get a visual representation of the word using the root. Why? That is the nature and power of the language. That is one reason why it is revealed, and preservation of the recitation is in the Arabic language. If you have a problem with that, then go study linguistics and try to disprove the above statements.

Arabic is not a dead language, we still use it today.. Quranic or classical Arabic is based on the medieval dialects of Arab tribes. The sentence structure is the same as is used in the modern standard Arabic used today. The groupings, context and some of the words used are vastly different.

Now let's move to the verses once again. Since you've posed another four verses which you claim to have said that the Earth is flat and you assumed everything yourself so I'd keep it aside for now and answer it after I clear your doubts regarding first verse. Now you said that Wikipedia told you that "Kawwara" means roll up or to coil and no where it mentioned anything about spherical or I'd say the shape of the Earth. Even if you use the Google Translator it'd give you the proper meaning. Word "Kawwara" has several meanings and it comes from the root word "Kura" and both literal meaning is "ball" or "to wrap something on a ball" or "to wrap something around (i.e turban on head)". Here's the literal meaning from Translator and yes I don't use Translator for my work but it's just to show you the literal meaning of it. Because if I were to bring meanings from an Arabic website or from the books of scholars you'd say those words are twisted. Now don't say that Google Translator is also twisting the words. Here's the image of what Translator gives us:
and here's the link.

If we get all the literal meanings and the usages of the word, it is as follows:


(Source given below)

You said that the verse is also applicable for a flat surface and that is completely wrong. Flat in Arabic is "musattah مسطح" and its verb (to make flat) is "sataha سطح" however neither were used in the entire Quran. Furthermore, Qur'an says that Earth has a diameter (diameter is simply twice the radius) in Chapter 55:33:

O company of jinn and mankind, if you are able to pass beyond the regions (Aktar in Arabic اقطار) of the heavens and the earth, then pass. You will not pass except by authority.

Diameter in Arabic is Kutr قطر. Its plural is Aktar اقطار. Radii and diameters are properties of circles or spheres only. This conforms with the previus verse, to make into a ball [Yukawer يُكَوِّرُ].


I've provided Google Translator and wiki link also so you wouldn't say that I've twisted the word myself. I didn't quote anything from a scholar just so that you wouldn't say that they've twisted these words. First I need your words on this and then I'll proceed on other verses you gave me. I've already got answer for that but it is way much important for me to clear statement of "twisted words".

Source:
https://quran.com/55/33
http://www.lexilogos.com/english/arabic_dictionary.htm
https://ar.forvo.com/search/قطر/ar/
https://ar.forvo.com/search/اقطار/ar/
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/كور#Arabic

Day and night don't literally "wrap" around the earth. The word is used here metaphorically. So you can't take all the parts of a metaphorical word literally. The translators used don't really say that the word means wrapping around a spherical object. They say the word means to coil up or to roll up and the word 'around' isn't mentioned anywhere.

Let's take the metaphor "Rainbow of love" for instance. If you take the literal meanings of these words, does that mean reflection, refraction and dispersion causes love (I laughed too) as they are what causes the rainbow?

Radii and diameters are properties of circles or spheres only.

You are wrong. They are the properties of cylinders as well.

Now I'd appreciate if you could explain the verses I gave you. Science doesn't explain anything using metaphors but religions do because then the words can be twisted and turned accordingly and that's the difference between science books and holy books.

[[Lsrcr]Oggy]

Miracle #4: The weight of the clouds.

The weight of clouds can reach quite astonishing proportions. According to scientists, the weight of the average cumulus cloud is 1.1 million pounds! Think about that for a moment. This means that at any given moment, there are millions of pounds of water floating above your head. Attention is drawn to the weight of clouds in verses of the Holy Qur'an in Chapter 7:57:

In another verse of Chapter 13:12 it says as follows:

At the time when the Qur'an was revealed, of course, it was quite impossible to have any information about the weight of clouds. This information, revealed in the Qur'an, but discovered only recently is yet another proof that the Holy Qur'an is the Word of Allah.

Source:
http://mentalfloss.com/article/49786/how-much-does-cloud-weigh
https://headsup.boyslife.org/how-much-d ... oud-weigh/
https://www.sciencealert.com/this-is-ho ... oud-weighs

Water has weight, pretty heavy in large numbers
There comes water out of clouds.
Big clouds = lot of water = heavy.
Clouds are heavy wtf it was god not just the most logical logic at all!!!

I agree with Robin. Every objects (light and some quantum particles are complicated exceptions) have mass (weight).