Replacing SSB with spikes [DENIED]

[ackman]

I'm sure that SWAT members will have the same POV as me once they actively start playing as a Criminal for temporary period. You're right here that one has to be really closed to get bombed but SWAT bomb is a game-breaking mechanism,.
If you play as a criminal in general, I don't think it's likely that you will get SWAT bombed. If you are cophunting, it is definitely more likely. Still, if you are cophunting, there are a lot of ways to counter the SWAT bomb. Evading SWAT or spreading out for instance are good options.

All of these just with a single click. Can you please just tell me the ONE single situation on how to encounter this?

Yes. Staying out of the SWAT bomb radius, or if cophunting, rotate SWAT bomb jammers. In a 1 vs SWAT situation, you should always evade SWAT anyway. If with a team you might be able to take them on.

They're not.

Yes. They are. Whether or not other servers have them doesn't really matter. This has been discussed by SWAT staff and developers multiple times. The fact is a roadblock will always be more effective. It will bring them to a full stop and you can easily pop their tires then.

You can look up yourself General discussion forum where newbies are complaining about this thing. Sorry to say, but these members are not skilled they're used to their OP bomb - they do not even hesitate to use this bomb on a newbie, lol. If a newbie, anyhow car jack someone or changes the car during the chase they would simply use the bomb to kill his engine. What do you think now?

I'll check it out and I think it's good people discuss those things. I don't however think it justifies removing the bomb completely.

They do use /swvm to repair their tires and would pop up our tires which makes it harder to get out of SWAT bomb radius, driver will most likely crash near the wall or somewhere closer to the SWAT. I do not expect to escape like 99% of the time, not even 50% but there must be at least once chance to escape if you're trapped in SWAT bomb radius. It's not as easy as it looks, escaping the SWAT bomb because driving at Ls-rcr is very hard (having cafe players constantly following you and what not.), I'm also a former SWAT bomber so I know how this bomb works, you just have to spam mouse right button whenever a bunch of wanted suspects are near.

Don't remove the bomb completely OK but something must be done because following are the WAY overpowered features (It's like having the old bomb in different form)

Engine Kill for 5 seconds
Disarms the driver & passenger.
Auto freeze/taze the suspect.
Disables the shock gun effect.
Auto-eject (if on bike).

SWAT should work as a team instead of using these features anyway, they've got plenty of other features they should make use of that.

[Karthik]

I assume this topic is just made out of anger that your cophunt was ruined earlier by a Swat member or team?
You are actually not viewing both sides on this. Except for the bomb, we have nothing to defend ourselves from criminals. A single Swat member with a bomb against a group of criminals won't even be able to touch them. If there's a group of swat members, there's a chance you can end the cophunt.
You do not realize the Bomb's radius is pretty much lower and it gets bugged often which has been an issue for years and wasn't able to fix as the cause couldn't be identified. The bomb detonation also has an animation and if detonated away from a vehicle gives the criminals enough time to run or kill the detonator. Let's not talk about the swat bomb jammer which prevents us from detonating the bomb.
Roadblock is pretty much useless when it comes to mountain bike and players with high ping. You would be surprised to see them going through a placed roadblock. Neither is it useful in a chase as the cophunters usually take out the swat vehicle's tires making it hard for us to place the roadblock in a way to block the suspect's vehicle. That would be the same if you introduced the spikes. You will have to get ahead of the suspects' vehicle to place the spike and so as to pop the tires, doesn't it sounds impossible?

[Veen]

Now whenever I prepare my group for Cop Hunts, riots - we ALWAYS end up getting killed or arrested within 5 to 10 minutes max because of SWAT bomb. It's ONE click and requires little to no skills at ALL. SWAT have never been able to catch large amount of Criminals with their team work skills/or tactics or special vehicles for e.g Water Canon, 2k HP cars.

No, your cophunt didn't end only because of the presence of the Swat Bomb, but it ended because you simply didn't know how to deal with it. you've been in many cophunts so you must be knowing that when there's a swat member connected, you guys should take it into consideration, buy swat bomb jammers, choose a driver that'll be constantly aware of a potential ssb coming to him.. it's about how you deal with it, and being a cophunter means you should think of all what could make threat to you and a way to escape from it. Now, for me 5-10 minutes cophunting sounds really intense for me, i don't know how you're seeing this but i hope you're not thinking your cophunt can last forever until you decide to end it by yourself..

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My suggestion is to completely REMOVE this BOMB and add spikes instead. SWAT has got lots of feature, they could use them to catch criminals. They could use roadblocks, /smh to hide themselves from map markers, PLUS POINT, they've got 2k HP on Sultan which is A VERY big advantage., we NEVER complaint about any other feature except for SWAT bomb because it has always been overpowered and destructive. It causes BAD image to SWAT faction, it's destroying the whole faction image. Getting SWAT bomb has become very easy.

Yes, all these things are swat features, and im glad that you mentionned the word faction, it's good to see you realising it's actually a faction and i hope you do also realise that it must be more advantaged than the classic status (cops). you're not complainting about the other features because it doesn't affect you that much, roadblock, 2k hp, /smh or even the herse you're suggesting won't get you out your mountain bike, neither stop a sultan with 8 mechanics cophunting ... the reputation of a faction isn't determinated by its features, it's determinated by its members...

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I'm also suggesting a solution to overcome this problem which is - by adding spikes. What spikes would basically do? They'd simply POP all your tires once you pass your car through/over them. Considering /fix command doesn't work unless the car health is under 600 so it would give SWAT members a handsome amount of time to shoot at the driver or put roadblock in front of suspect car.

I wrote how the herse cannot replace the bomb, and im not sure if you're being serious in explaning how herse will not stop the cophunt , because that's clearly what you're doing here, not the opposit. popping tires is a lot easier with shooting m4 than herses, and i don't see how this will help when you got 8 mechanics on your car ..

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A last note, if you're expecting to see good manners, then please you stick to them also when you're stating your opinion in game, not only here ..

[ackman]

I assume this topic is just made out of anger that your cophunt was ruined earlier by a Swat member or team?
You are actually not viewing both sides on this. Except for the bomb, we have nothing to defend ourselves from criminals. A single Swat member with a bomb against a group of criminals won't even be able to touch them. If there's a group of swat members, there's a chance you can end the cophunt.
You do not realize the Bomb's radius is pretty much lower and it gets bugged often which has been an issue for years and wasn't able to fix as the cause couldn't be identified. The bomb detonation also has an animation and if detonated away from a vehicle gives the criminals enough time to run or kill the detonator. Let's not talk about the swat bomb jammer which prevents us from detonating the bomb.
Roadblock is pretty much useless when it comes to mountain bike and players with high ping. You would be surprised to see them going through a placed roadblock. Neither is it useful in a chase as the cophunters usually take out the swat vehicle's tires making it hard for us to place the roadblock in a way to block the suspect's vehicle. That would be the same if you introduced the spikes. You will have to get ahead of the suspects' vehicle to place the spike and so as to pop the tires, doesn't it sounds impossible?

Well that's everyday story, because my team does get bombed everyday since Blackouts is the only group cophunting these days, LOL.

I know SWAT without a bomb is bunch of cops on a single car, that's why I mentioned a solution to overcome the removal of bomb. I suggested one, y'all could suggest many other things but since nobody from SWAT wants to accept the fact that its OP so they're not suggesting anything in removal. As a community we could suggest something which could work out for everyone (which is only possible if swat members support this suggestion and suggest the replacement to overcome this problem. That'd be it, you can look my previous replies to CX and Snipaxxy. I'll support everything I could to get this game-breaking element either completely removed or nerfed.

For SWAT members, it's not like something that you won't get anything in return in removal of this bomb, please be honest and show some support. Come up with ideas instead of bringing back the same thing from past... Or if you don't wanna support this suggestion then at least please write something regarding what feature should be reconsidered from SSB?

[Snipaxxyy]

Spoiler: show

If we wanted to remove the SWAT bomb then I think we should definitely balance between SWAT & Cop hunters. Let's start, perhaps, with removing mountain bikes completely, removing Blackmarket then we could discuss of removing SSB. We get to face everyday people who ride Mountain Bikes on 300 ping which is literally like superglueing your ass to the mountain bike saddle... although we manage to get them off their bikes they're supplied to teeth with Blackmarket items, different kinds starting from taze reflectors, shock guns, stun bats, cuff kits etc etc... even SSB Jammers which neutralize SSB!
SSB is not as easy to use as someone who cannot use it would think, we have to get close to the suspect who is probably skipping roads by jumping over walls & buildings, we have to predict their move of which direction they're heading at & the situation where SSB has no use is when they reach to Mulholland and skip roads jumping from one to another and doing that continously. Plus, counting the fact that detonators are very buggy and not everytime we get to detonate our bombs which then will cost us another good 10 minutes chasing the same suspect.
If we wanted to remove SSB then we'll need to balance things, else no.

I respect your POV and you indeed look correct. I'm not going onto Black Market Items because this market is the START of this whole unbalanced gameplay comparison which I think is too late to complain now. Maybe SSB could be a thing used against Bikers, but not against the cars? Because on the bike there may be a chance to escape but on the car, there's literally no chance. A cop teaming with the SWAT is waiting outside having /cuff id copied.
SWAT should work as a Team, just like we Criminals do. We do only get successful in killing/robbing because of a team, without a team we're nothing - so should SWAT as well. We can overcome this issue by discussing over here professionally, something that should work for everyone. I'm sure you'll as well find it overpowered considering the features it has against criminals who are on car.

Although it's common sense that you should try at any cost to avoid SWAT team, not because I'm being cocky about the team I belong to but because that's logical, I would agree to addition of a rule which conditions us to ask the suspect(s) to surrender first, before engaging with SSB in certain circumistances

Spoiler: show

You may engage highly wanted suspects & the most wanted suspects with SSB, after using /su and waiting for the timer to expire
You may use SSB only on medium wanted suspects , highly wanted suspects & most wanted suspect without /su only if:

• Suspect(s) is/are on a vehicle whose tires or the vehicle itself is indestructible (Mountain Bikes, Monster (A/B) etc)
• Suspect(s) is/are on a vehicle whose tires are non-existent (Vortex, Airborne)
• You are being shot at by them

Just an example, if you have ideas feel free to add

Since people think it interrupts newbies' gameplay then I believe we should make at least minor changes that could have at least a slight impact on the gameplay of both SWAT's and others, server activity matters of course.

As for the Blackmarket thing, it needs to be a suggestion on its own. I believe we all have got so much to say about it.

[Crossbones]

if you want to change few things about the bomb, which doesn’t require any change at all, we could make it similar to Army tank rules for ex, since they are practically the only assets which could slow down big group hunts, maybe /su wanteds before using it so maybe you can have a chance to escape. that 5 seconds of /su crims can think fast about their next move before SWATs use the bomb and dismantle you for 5 seconds.

fair trade, 5 seconds to act with 5 seconds of taze from the effects of the bomb.

the swat bomb effect of ejecting the wanted from bike will NEVER get mine or any other member approval to be removed, as it stands, MB is the most Overpowered asset criminals have nowadays, it would be fair enough for a faction like SWAT (SPECIAL WEAPONS and tactics) to counter it, unlike Army and police which have to chase Bikers like crazy and deal minor damages or not arrest criminals at all, because they jump onto other buildings not accessible by ground. not to mention Bikers that have 300+ ping and drugs with them, which are literally invincible.

if bomb /sh disable effect gets removed, then it would trigger SHOCK spam and lead to death of SWATS and mission fail to kill criminals, if you get /tazeref and whatever else thing criminals use, it would basically make them invincible, which leads to bomb becoming completely useless for the sole purpose of “slowing down group hunts” and taking down criminals. another point why it shouldn’t be changed as it would make things more complicated than they already are at this time.

about the auto freeze part, swats aren’t able to taze criminals for 5 seconds, which means 5 seconds is less than enough time to arrest wanteds, due to many factors like slow typing speed, distance etc. for example sometimes when I use bomb, I get countered easily when criminals get unfrozen and start killing me by using shocks and even tazerefs, since 5 seconds passes quicker than you think mate. just get a /swatjam, problem solved no need to create this suggestion at the first place at all.

you don’t expect to remove the bomb from swat, that won’t ever happen no cap, because there are many factors which support the usage of it from Swat members.

[Karu_Tepes]

RANT INCOMING!
Christ, you are all being such children. On both fronts.

Cop Hunters: The cops do need some way to end cop hunts for it to be fair. I'm sorry, but that IS fairness. I hate being bombed too but it's better for them to bomb me in a legitimate way than the current LSPD assholes who have aimbot and keybinders. A certain keybinder has been singling me out for WEEKS, and yet I still put in the fucking effort! You can't just complain on one end without considering the other.

LEOs: You lot are no fucking better! You want to sit here and calling it whining, but when the fuck do you sit back and see his valid points? The server is PLAGUED by blues who are NOT following the rules. Want some examples? MASSIVE /rp abuse Cops cuffing and searching medics (the leo ones) and arresting them because of a bug. Cops murdering oranges because they are too lazy to give chase and just open fire, even when it gets them a fine. At least two keybinders (although one was banned on another issue). You think we wanna be arrested by keybinding, murdering, rule breaking pricks? Maybe if the LSPD blue members weren't so fucking annoying with their cheating and abuse, we wouldn't be having this god damn conversation. But heaven forbid any of you look at that, huh?

To everyone: viewtopic.php?f=620&t=107382
This was a suggestion I made MONTHS ago that I worked on with CXdur himself! A true balance overhaul that would make everyone have fair and normal and balanced gameplay. Did anyone care? Nope. Cop hunters hated having to reunlock things and having cops be able to counter them. Cops hated having to reunlock things and have to actually do their jobs. Everyone, and i mean fucking everyone! only cares about their own selfish shit on this crap, and I've had about enough. It seems like every god damn suggestion is "make leos weaker" or "make criminals weaker" or something along those lines. How about truly balance it like I suggest, get over your damn selves, and lets work on suggesting IMPROVEMENTS to the server instead of suggesting new and creative ways to fuck each other?

rant over

[ackman]

if you want to change few things about the bomb, which doesn’t require any change at all, we could make it similar to Army tank rules for ex, since they are practically the only assets which could slow down big group hunts, maybe /su wanteds before using it so maybe you can have a chance to escape. that 5 seconds of /su crims can think fast about their next move before SWATs use the bomb and dismantle you for 5 seconds.

fair trade, 5 seconds to act with 5 seconds of taze from the effects of the bomb.

the swat bomb effect of ejecting the wanted from bike will NEVER get mine or any other member approval to be removed, as it stands, MB is the most Overpowered asset criminals have nowadays, it would be fair enough for a faction like SWAT (SPECIAL WEAPONS and tactics) to counter it, unlike Army and police which have to chase Bikers like crazy and deal minor damages or not arrest criminals at all, because they jump onto other buildings not accessible by ground. not to mention Bikers that have 300+ ping and drugs with them, which are literally invincible.

if bomb /sh disable effect gets removed, then it would trigger SHOCK spam and lead to death of SWATS and mission fail to kill criminals, if you get /tazeref and whatever else thing criminals use, it would basically make them invincible, which leads to bomb becoming completely useless for the sole purpose of “slowing down group hunts” and taking down criminals. another point why it shouldn’t be changed as it would make things more complicated than they already are at this time.

about the auto freeze part, swats aren’t able to taze criminals for 5 seconds, which means 5 seconds is less than enough time to arrest wanteds, due to many factors like slow typing speed, distance etc. for example sometimes when I use bomb, I get countered easily when criminals get unfrozen and start killing me by using shocks and even tazerefs, since 5 seconds passes quicker than you think mate. just get a /swatjam, problem solved no need to create this suggestion at the first place at all.

you don’t expect to remove the bomb from swat, that won’t ever happen no cap, because there are many factors which support the usage of it from Swat members.

Okay so what you’re basically trying to say that swat bomber should never be defeated.

1. Make Jammer available in weapons rack, just like SWAT has. OR
Remove SWAT bomb from their weapons rack and place it somewhere far like in BM.

2. 5 seconds..... man just play as a Criminal for once at least befoee you get your facts right.

I AM TIRED OF SAYING GO PLAY AS A CRIMINAL BEFORE POSTING HERE. Y'all have never been bombed that’s why you’re not supporting this suggestion.
How hard is it to get rid of this overpowered thing? Why do you all keep supporting SSB?

No guts to support the truth? Come on have balls to speak.

Suggestions against swat faction are always backed up by their members and that’s how they win. They never play as a Criminal but they will definitely talk shit on the suggestion.

Just a question to these dishonest swat members: Have you ever been bombed?

[ackman]

if you want to change few things about the bomb, which doesn’t require any change at all, we could make it similar to Army tank rules for ex, since they are practically the only assets which could slow down big group hunts, maybe /su wanteds before using it so maybe you can have a chance to escape. that 5 seconds of /su crims can think fast about their next move before SWATs use the bomb and dismantle you for 5 seconds.

fair trade, 5 seconds to act with 5 seconds of taze from the effects of the bomb.

the swat bomb effect of ejecting the wanted from bike will NEVER get mine or any other member approval to be removed, as it stands, MB is the most Overpowered asset criminals have nowadays, it would be fair enough for a faction like SWAT (SPECIAL WEAPONS and tactics) to counter it, unlike Army and police which have to chase Bikers like crazy and deal minor damages or not arrest criminals at all, because they jump onto other buildings not accessible by ground. not to mention Bikers that have 300+ ping and drugs with them, which are literally invincible.

if bomb /sh disable effect gets removed, then it would trigger SHOCK spam and lead to death of SWATS and mission fail to kill criminals, if you get /tazeref and whatever else thing criminals use, it would basically make them invincible, which leads to bomb becoming completely useless for the sole purpose of “slowing down group hunts” and taking down criminals. another point why it shouldn’t be changed as it would make things more complicated than they already are at this time.

about the auto freeze part, swats aren’t able to taze criminals for 5 seconds, which means 5 seconds is less than enough time to arrest wanteds, due to many factors like slow typing speed, distance etc. for example sometimes when I use bomb, I get countered easily when criminals get unfrozen and start killing me by using shocks and even tazerefs, since 5 seconds passes quicker than you think mate. just get a /swatjam, problem solved no need to create this suggestion at the first place at all.

you don’t expect to remove the bomb from swat, that won’t ever happen no cap, because there are many factors which support the usage of it from Swat members.

Okay so what you’re basically trying to say that swat bomber should never be defeated.

1. Make Jammer available in weapons rack, just like SWAT has. OR
Remove SWAT bomb from their weapons rack and place it somewhere far like in BM.

2. 5 seconds..... man just play as a Criminal for once at least befoee you get your facts right.

I AM TIRED OF SAYING GO PLAY AS A CRIMINAL BEFORE POSTING HERE. Y'all have never been bombed that’s why you’re not supporting this suggestion.
How hard is it to get rid of this overpowered thing? Why do you all keep supporting SSB?

No guts to support the truth? Come on have balls to speak.

Suggestions against swat faction are always backed up by their members and that’s how they win. They never play as a Criminal but they will definitely talk shit on the suggestion.

Just a question to these dishonest swat members: Have you ever been bombed?

1. We never complained about tank because it’s not overpowered due to the set of rules and its speed.

2. We never complained about Army vehicles HP neither of SWAT vehicles HP.

3. We never complained about /smh and other swat features except ssb.

We could make suggestion to decrease your faction vehicle health but we didn’t because it will also be backed up by poor swat members.

If for once you members could open your eyes and have balls to speak to balance the gameplay then please.. start already.

[ackman]

Army has got lots of deadly vehicles, but yet there are no suggestions against them. :O

How come?

1. Hydra
2. Hunter
3. Sea Sparrow
4. Tank
5. Barracks

All DEADlY vehicles yet no suggestions against them. Can you now please open your eyes and look from a criminal pov?