Lsrcr Forum

Your name: Abuse
Suggestion headline: /cuff failure
Picture: -
Importance of suggestion:7/10
Why should it be accepted: Hi, before I start I want to mention that this goes for COPS ONLY, SWAT members shouldn't be affected with this. so basically the suggestion is to make the /cuff command with failure attempt, which means that not every /cuff will succeed.(reduce the success rate). It should get accepted because now days you trying to make the game more realistic, and it's too easy for cops to arrest, plus as the opposite side as it(/uncuff) ,it should be equal with both sides. (of course not in the same success percentage). let me hear your thoughts.

Huge +1, Cause i think now days people dont like to play as criminal because they get arrested too easy and this is a perfect suggestion to have some little advantage. This will also increase the amount of wanteds in game makes it more fun. Cops should put more effort in arresting somebody. I think being tazed should be easier to be cuffed than being straight cuffed.

apapaoemama wrote:

Huge +1, Cause i think now days people dont like to play as criminal because they get arrested too easy and this is a perfect suggestion to have some little advantage. This will also increase the amount of wanteds in game makes it more fun. Cops should put more effort in arresting somebody. I think being tazed should be easier to be cuffed than being straight cuffed.

not the first time for me when i try to introduce the server to my friends and they end up being arrested, that's awful, we can clearly see that there is no more new players in the server...

Overdose wrote:

not the first time for me when i try to introduce the server to my friends and they end up being arrested, that's awful, we can clearly see that there is no more new players in the server...

If you join a Cops and Robbers server and play as a robber, you should expect to potentially be arrested, and understand that it is a part of the game.

On topic with the suggestion, I agree specifically with this statement:

apapaoemama wrote:

I think being tazed should be easier to be cuffed than being straight cuffed.

The tazer assists an officer in making the arrest easier than just going up and /cuff'ing someone, since it should be "harder" to just walk up to a suspect and place them in handcuffs. However, /cuff does have a smaller range than /taze so it could be argued to some extent that it takes skill/etc to be able to get close to a suspect in range to /cuff.

Also, this discussion doesn't take into account a couple of things:

• Officers have a taze timer/cooldown, as well as limited number of cuffs.
• Criminals have the ability to purchase shocks and other tools in the BM to counter the taze/cuff.
• Criminals can team to improve their chances of surviving cop encounters.

More importantly, I feel that on a lot of these scenarios that are used as examples for why cops are overpowered (and the same can be said for the opposite) is that they are taking situations in which there are 2+ players vs 1 player where your player/team is outnumbered. In those cases, you are expected to have less of a chance of "winning" (winning can be surviving, arresting, robbing, etc).

To go to an example:
- There are 4 of team A teaming
- There are 2 of team B teaming

Unless the skill gap is enormous between the two teams, team A is supposed to have the better chance of winning due to sheer numbers - there's twice as many of them as there are of the other team.

If the game were made so that the chances of team B were equal to those of team A with less members, that'd be a sign of real unbalance. Of course there are situations where having less members is more in a sense (when escaping its less people to organize, etc) but for most scenarios more means more. As said before, the skill gap can be a reason for this but the server itself should not be a method to allow 2 players to beat 4, and so on.

That's why I'm giving this suggestion a Negative vote. There are no concrete examples where it's shown that one side is clearly in advantage of the other one (for example, different cuff vs shock radius, different cooldown timer, etc). I agree that if there was any big unbalance, it should be fixed. However, try to understand that the gamemode you chose to play means that the cops will try to arrest you if you are doing crimes!

If you join a Cops and Robbers server and play as a robber, you should expect to potentially be arrested, and understand that it is a part of the game.

Yeah, but what about the advantage that the cop has on a newcomer? (the cop could be a new comer to, because there are no restrictions with the score on the cop skill)
as criminal has while he can't enter blackmarket to buy things to defend himself against the huge disadvantage against him.


What about the realistic matter? If the staff is trying to make the server more reliable, (when he makes the server unbalanced at all by doing it) then where's the realistic here? that you can always cuff someone without him running?

ada wrote:

[li]Criminals have the ability to purchase shocks and other tools in the BM to counter the taze/cuff.[/li]

Blackmarket items? where are all the players who are under 1500 score and they can't reach the Blackmarket? but in the other hand you can join with 0 score to the COP skill, and there are no restrictions while you having 0 score.

ada wrote:

[li]Criminals can team to improve their chances of surviving cop encounters.[/li][/ul]

You must be kidding when writing it down, you must understand that this suggestion is not only for me, it's also for new comers, while they have no friends to team up, what could he do against a team of cops?

There is no skill needed to straight cuff somebody. For an example you just drive next to someone and get out of the vehicle and copy paste /cuff (id).

Abuse wrote:

Yeah, but what about the advantage that the cop has on a newcomer? (the cop could be a new comer to, because there are no restrictions with the score on the cop skill)
as criminal has while he can't enter blackmarket to buy things to defend himself against the huge disadvantage against him.

The "disadvantages" you get from being a new player apply in all servers to all possible playing styles. You do not know the server, and you do not know anyone. You are right about how new players cannot go to the BM to get items to defend themselves against from cops; however, did you stop to consider the difficulties a new cop has? On most times, they do not even know where to get their weapons, and they have to fight against individual criminals or teams of criminals that are friends and are more experienced that they are. These are cops that do not understand the player colors explained in /pc, and that do not understand several other aspects of the game. Once again, these disadvantages are common to all new players, regardless of what class they pick.

Abuse wrote:

What about the realistic matter? If the staff is trying to make the server more reliable, (when he makes the server unbalanced at all by doing it) then where's the realistic here? that you can always cuff someone without him running?

You can run away just fine; as a matter of fact, you can be cuffed and still keep running! (Unless you were cuffed by swat). You may also try out to use vehicles in the water, air, and land. You can teleport between the airports, and at the checkpoints to fly to Alcatraz or Dillimore. You can talk in the main chat (which every samp player knows how to do) and meet people as well, which can help you regardless of the skill you play as; after all, that's how everyone gets to meet other players to team/play with. Maybe they can help you escape from the cops, chase criminals, rob stores, and more as well.

Abuse wrote:

Blackmarket items? where are all the players who are under 1500 score and they can't reach the Blackmarket? but in the other hand you can join with 0 score to the COP skill, and there are no restrictions while you having 0 score.

You are wrong here as well. With 0 score, you cannot /rp players to then /fine them again. On top of that, the restrictions applied to cops which I've stated on my original post (I would invite you to re-read the entire thing again after reading this entire reply) apply to cops regardless of score. That is, a cop of 0 score will get the same limitations as a cop of 10,000 score (except the /rp thing noted above). On top of that, players can talk in the main chat and figure out that there is a "drug dealer/items dealer" skin that will allow them to purchase not only the shocks that are in the BM, but other items as well like corks and wallets. Did you know that civilians are also given a free (limited supply) of shocks when they spawn if they have a negative score? Here's a pic of me getting them today:

Abuse wrote:

You must be kidding when writing it down, you must understand that this suggestion is not only for me, it's also for new comers, while they have no friends to team up, what could he do against a team of cops?

There is no skill needed to straight cuff somebody. For an example you just drive next to someone and get out of the vehicle and copy paste /cuff (id).

Once again, everyone was at a point where they did not know* everyone. The same happens to both criminals and cops alike. For you to be able to drive next to someone, copy paste /cuff (id), and then do /ar (id) successfully the following need to happen:

• The criminal must not notice you coming or refuse to run away in any of the methods stated above
• The criminal must be completely isolated from other criminals/civilians (whether they are friends or not) who could be trying to kill the cop
• The criminal must not be able to shoot at you once you are going to them and kill you
• The criminal must not shock you in any part of the process of you trying to either cuff or arrest
• The criminal must let you get within cuff range without doing any of the above

As you can see, even that reduced list is enough things that the criminal can do to get away with from an individual cop. Now, as we both know, cops (and criminals alike) enjoy teaming and playing with others. What happens to the beginner criminal when they face a team of 2+ cops that have experience? The same thing that happens to a beginner cop when they face a team of 2+ criminals that have experience. They don't automatically lose, but they have a high chance of losing due to lack of experience and smaller numbers (as I said in my older post).

Once again, I use list items where I use them to show examples, but that doesn't mean my entire point of view is the list items themselves. My entire post contains my line of thought, not just the list items. If my post is too long to read, nobody forces anyone to reply instantly; matter of fact you're encouraged to take as much time as it takes you to come up with a proper response and rebuttal to what someone else says.

Guys lets not compare criminals abilities to cops abilities as it will lead to nowhere.

Back to the suggestion im going to give +1 for 2 reasons failing to cuff someone sounds more reaslisic, and more important, the current state of the server as everyone can see
criminal activities in the server are below the average which make the gameplay less enjoyable and boring tbh i regularly see players write "more crimes please" in main chat i dunno why they vote negative on any suggestion that may encourage them, even factions are becoming useless, everyone is afraid to get wanted due to their wanted levels not lasting more than 1 min on average.

Criminals are the main engine of this server and this engine is not working properly so giving them a slight advantage in some cases won't hurt in my opinion on the contrary it will make the engine work as it should.

To all players that voted or will vote negative on this suggestion are you happy with the current criminal activity ? if yes then the server is in great conditions and this suggestion can be dismissed.

Amir_ben wrote:

failing to cuff someone sounds more reaslistic,

Having to pay taxes sounds realistic, not being able to use bugs such as tapping the up arrow on a bike or 2shot sounds realistic, not being able to car surf sounds realistic, but yet many of these shouldn't/won't be implemented despite being realistic. Something being more realistic isn't enough of an argument as to why it should be implemented.

Amir_ben wrote:

the current state of the server as everyone can see
criminal activities in the server are below the average which make the gameplay less enjoyable and boring tbh i regularly see players write "more crimes please" in main chat i dunno why they vote negative on any suggestion that may encourage them, even factions are becoming useless, everyone is afraid to get wanted due to their wanted levels not lasting more than 1 min on average.

You make these points here:

• There are less criminals than cops, sometimes by very big margins
• Factions are becoming useless
• People are afraid to be wanted because their wanted level won't last very long

1. I agree, there are less criminals than cops. The server usually alternates in periods where either most players are criminals or most players are law enforcement. It's not as common for the skills to be balanced sometimes, but this is also affected by hours. That is, at night on my time I usually see far more criminals than in the morning, where almost everyone is a cop/swat/army. The point you bring up of having to think why this is the case is important, so I'll try to address it from my point of view below.

2. You just throw this out there without any fundament - people are still liking to apply to these, play in these, and they are fairly active. SWAT/Army have always attracted players to continue to play and try to make it there, and a lot of players are happy with playing in these factions as of right now - every time I go online I see people in those skins. Pagati with the reformed leadership has seen a rise in activity as well, so I don't see any reasoning for your claim here.

3. That's a good point. Many players are afraid to be wanted for the fear of being arrested. However, this is in large part due to many players not understanding that this is a Cops and Robbers server, not a Team Deathmatch. Many of these players are invited here/join here and see the Team Deathmatch like gameplay and think that this is what they have to expect from playing the game - running to meet the other team and "dueling", die, respawn, repeat. It's because they show up like this or are unable to understand the formality of this gamemode that they get upset. Granted, if the gameplay was really unbalanced in favor of cops with respect to criminals, that should of course be fixed as I said before. But I still have to see someone bring up valid points of how the playing field is not leveled (different radii for taze/shock, etc).

Amir_ben wrote:

Criminals are the main engine of this server and this engine is not working properly so giving them a slight advantage in some cases won't hurt in my opinion on the contrary it will make the engine work as it should.

This is Cops AND Robbers. Many people in the past have said what you said either for one class or the other, and all that's resulted in was in shifting of who was overpowered, not balanced. Not entirely due to devs fault, since players would complain no matter what was picked, and they always seem to change their mood depending on whether their team lost/won that day. Giving either side a slight advantage without accounting for it on the other side is not very intelligent, as past events shown.

Amir_ben wrote:

To all players that voted or will vote negative on this suggestion are you happy with the current criminal activity ? if yes then the server is in great conditions and this suggestion can be dismissed.

Ok, so then the balance is "tipped over" to criminals side. Then someone will come along and make the same argument you're making right now so that the balance is tipped over again to the cop side. You cannot make the argument that simply because the criminal activity is low at one time, that is enough of a reason to just blindly add features that would benefit criminals.

Amir_ben wrote:

Guys lets not compare criminals abilities to cops abilities as it will lead to nowhere.

You are, either willingly or not, ignoring all the arguments that I've placed before as to why the situation is not unbalanced as many of you are saying. If the argument you make is that the criminal activity is low and that it is due because of them being weaker to cops, you cannot avoid having people compare both classes - how else could your claim be tested then?

You do have some good points, but you're choosing to come up with your own conclusions for them rather than try to start a discussion about them.

As far as the criminal activity being low most of the time (at least when I play in the day) that is correct, and it should be examined to see why that is the case. In my personal opinion, as I've said here and I've said on older posts here as well, it's because of the playerbase not understanding what a Cops and Robbers server is. I've given my reasoning as to why I think that's the case and neither you nor the people before you have come up with valid arguments as to why that line of thinking would be incorrect. As far as criminals being afraid, I agree that is true as well. And also, I link it to players not understanding the gamemode. This happens not only with criminals but with cops as well - that's why the fine on cops that would just go around killing criminals that wouldn't fight back was implemented, so that the message was sent across that it was not the correct way to take down that type of suspect as a cop.

I won't even bother read your whole story, I stopped reading when you said that the newcomer can get wallet/cork, drugs/items, or on the opposite way you talking about the /fine command.
You're taking it the other place, we are talking here about how there's a big disadvantage in COP skin and Civilian skin, and you're talking about getting wallet/cork? it make no sense, we are talking about the /cuff failure command and you went out of the way by far, and you're talking about that a cop with zero score can't fine, again, if you take both COP and Civilian that just joined the game, who has more advantage? eh,
The cop hasn't restrictions except he can't fine(which is no big deal because we are talking about a crime's, no on 3 and below wanted level), he can /taze & /cuff instantly, but now you'll say : "oh the /taze command has a cool down), yeah a cooldown of few seconds while you can not even use the taze, the taze is only stands to freeze you up and letting you cuff the suspect in a simple way, oh but now you'll say: "oh you need to re-fill your cuffs every couple of times", wow a big deal to visit after every couple of arrests the PD.
But in the opposite side, you have the criminal with a zero score, when he has only few bucks to spend, and he can't buy the whole world (shocks/wallet/corck/drugs), don't we talk about him can't enter the blackmarket to get some better supplies then shocks, because after maximum 6 times he can't use them anymore.

In anyway you will take it you can either look about that the cop has more advantage or the criminal has more advantage, you can choose what ever is more comfortable for you, but it doesn't mean this suggestion can't be approved, yet I think it would increase the amount of criminals in the server, and it would be more realistic, as the opposite side has it (/uncuff failure attempts).

Most of the criminals in the server are equipped with BM items which includes cuff kit/tazeref.
These things are enough, but if we go for reducing the /cuff chances, it would be making the cop side loose some plus perks.
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