SWAT SSB

[artifact]

There is no rule that says the SWAT bomb has to be used only in a specific situation or at a specific time. As long as it’s allowed, I can use it whenever I see it fit. Everyone plays differently, and using game mechanics doesn’t equal abusing them. If the admins decide to add rules for it, then fine, but until then, it’s being used within the rules.

when you say there is no rule that forces you to use the SSB only in certain moments, and yes, technically it’s allowed right now. But being “allowed” doesn’t always mean it’s fair or good for gameplay. The problem is not just that you use it, it’s how you constantly use it in every situation, even when it’s clearly unnecessary. We can’t deny the fact that many times you literally ask your cafe players to ram criminals first just so you can drop the SSB after, and whenever you feel like you can’t handle a situation, you ask any cafe player to ram or cuff abuse... that’s not “playing differently,” that’s abusing a tool in every chance possible. so when players complain, it’s not because they hate SWAT or don’t want you to use your abilities, it’s because the way it’s being spammed/

[saeeddi]

As a S.W.A.T. Member I don't meant to be biased but I will defend the usage of SSB, this isn't the first time a suggestion has been posted to nerf SSB and it certainly won't be the last, sure as Cover mentioned we also have other weapons like the increased cuff range, but that doesn't do us a whole lot, when it comes to having a taze/shock battle between a S.W.A.T. member and a criminal, S.W.A.T. is usually the first having to taze, and at the end our tazer runs out first and the criminal is able to get away, not to mention having taze ref, making it so that we use our taze first, as well as it being reflected upon us making it pretty much one sided, and as for the drone, it can only be used for such high ranks that even I haven't unlocked it even after being for over 2 years, while that is no excuse because I am very inactive when it comes to S.W.A.T. but seeing other members use it, it doesn't do much from what I've seen, and for /smh command, used it a bunch and it does work sometimes, but most of the time you are easily caught by other criminals, even if you use a helicopter to hide at a discreet location and use a sniper from far away, you can't do much with the element of surprise as most of the time you will get gunned down, sure it does work but it has a 15 minute cooldown and when it comes to close combat it is useless. The reason we use SSB the most is because it is the most efficient, hands down. With over 2 years of experience I've tried to use all the S.W.A.T. tactics, and none of them work as efficient as the SSB, even /swclimb is useless, most of the time you fail because the building is so high, if you want us to use other tactics and not spam SSB then buff the other mechanics because they are only used at very specific situations that rarely happen.
While on the other hand, criminals have taze ref, which is guaranteed upon a taze, cuff kit which has high chance of /bc, SSB jammer, all these that are guaranteed to efficiently work against us and serve as perfect counters. Saying SSB is unfair, it was never meant to be fair, you think that law enforcement gives a shit about making it fair for criminals? No, they will use anything to arrest you. And it's not like arresting does anything nowadays, everyime I arrest someone they instant /usejailcard and /kill and spawn in their house somewhere in idlewood or lsa and /dweap and instantly fully restock and go wanted again, complaining that you get arrested once per sometime because most of the time S.W.A.T. is constantly dying due to getting outnumbered, and we only spawn in our base where we have to regear and drive back from our far away base. Stop crying about getting SSB'd as a single target when all you do is camp with snipers on high ground, and once you get low go hide and spam /takedrugs 25 or have a team of 5 on top of an infernus with nitro, or sit at the jefferson motel and wait there with chainsaws or hide behind the hallway, I can name several pussy strategies that you guys use that is completely unfair and near impossible for us to counter. You have your unfair advantages we have ours, just cause you die and your "fun" is ruined when 90% of the time you use the same bullshit strategies to kill us, doesn't mean we deserve a nerf.

You saved me a lot of time explaining to those who lack common sense. Staff & developers should read this, and I agree with TheNinjaWizzard, SWAT faction DOESN'T need a nerf.

if 'common sense' to you is keeping a zero cooldown stun bomb cuz u cant handle a 1v1 without it, then ur skill level is lower than i thought. you are literally beggin' staff to keep your easy mode on while acting like ur smart for using it. its embarrassing.

[ackman]

SWAT honestly feels like a joke right now. It’s packed with features that have no limits at all, and that makes it both unrealistic and unbalanced.

Just look at this:

SWAT drone — no limitations on usage by the rules.
SWAT bomb — no limitations on usage by the rules.
SWAT climb — no limitations on usage by the rules.
SWAT vehicle modifications — no limitations on usage by the rules.
SWAT /smh — no limitations on usage by the rules.
Extended cuff and taser range — no limitations

Compare that to Army. We have some very powerful vehicles and weapons, but they’re all restricted by rules. For example, you can’t use a Hydra on orange suspects. You can’t use the Hunter minigun on anyone who’s on the ground. You can’t use any Army vehicle features without warning first.

So why has SWAT had zero restrictions since day one?

Using SSB on a single suspect makes no sense, especially when SWAT already has extended taser and cuff range. It’s overkill, and it ruins the gameplay.

If nothing else, can we at least require /su before using SSB on a solo wanted player? Or is that too much to ask?

[Wizzy]

"lmao "we accept our loss and move on", no u dont, you literally just admitted you spam a broken stun cuz your too scared to lose a fair fight. saying 'relying on the meta is being smart' is just a long way of saying you cant aim for shit without a ssb. if you actually had mentality you’d want to win because you’re better at the game, not because youre abusing a zero cd exploit. And stop crying about driving to a checkpoint or dragging suspects. That’s literally the role u signed up for? your complaining about basic gameplay mechanics while defending a literal game-breaking spam. 'we have it harder' bro you have a team, heavy and a kit made to catch people. If you still need a stun-loop on top of all that just to get a single cuff, that’s a massive skill issue. Also the jammer argument is still braindead. Your basically saying 'i’m gonna keep using this broken glitch-tier item until you pay the BM money to stop me.' That’s not 'facts,' thats just u being a sweat who’s terrified of a meta where you actually have to try. Go ahead and keep spamming it since 'theres no rule against it,' but don’t act like your some tactical genius for pressing one button over and over. You’re just proving the game is cooked if the only way SWAT can function is by freezing people. stay salty tho."

I didn't admit anything? I'm not the one who brought up this suggestion and I barely play nowadays. I actually do use SSB effectively only in situations that are actually necessary, usually when I'm outnumbered or as a last resort when I'm really low HP, which is basically 99% of the time. "Too scared to lose a fair fight" is just plain bullshit, when most of you have heals copy-pasted and run away somewhere. Obviously I don't want to lose and neither does anyone else so why would we not give our all to a fight? Like I said there is no honor here, when you're in a cophunt do you seperate due to the low number of S.W.A.T. and try to make it fair or do you stay on it and remain a literal minigun on top of a vehicle? Exactly, Stop using your emotions to argue when I'm looking at it from both prespectives, cause unlike you I actually have experience in both being a S.W.A.T. member and as well as being a criminal, I'm not crying about anything mentioning dragging suspects, we did sign up for it, but we also signed up for our special weapons, you talk about a fair fight when most of you use snipers on rooftops, stay in houses/jefferson motel with chainsaws or hold it down like a fort, constantly using heliblades and running away to heal when you're low, these aren't fair strategies but they're part of the game, you can use them any way you see fit and you don't see us complaining, we adapt and use our own methods to catch you, stop complaining about the usage of a mechanic that was purposefully meant to be powerful. Still refusing to just accept having a SSB Jammer, you're gonna be upset that you have to spend a bit of money while everyone here has hundreds of jailcards and don't bother doing any jail time, what happened to that part of the game? it was countered by pay to win, so don't talk to me about pay to win when you own luxury houses and use them as a getaway vehicle.
Nowadays combat is so cooked that we can't even have a fair fight because of how many bullshit strategies you pull, it's near impossible for us to catch someone alone because of various situations, even chasing them with a vehicle is hard because of nitro. Our tazer runs out first, taze ref, cuff kit, and I'm not a sweat who plays this game everyday for hours and has lighting SOC, if you're not Grand level of SOC then you will simply just run out of your tazer and have to chase them and most of the time you end up dying cause you're getting sniped from 3 different angles, criminals have become so active that there is rarely anyone who is 'alone'
And no ones thinking they're a tactical genius for using SSB, complaining that S.W.A.T. uses freezing mechanics while the entire purpose of S.W.A.T. is that, and I'm not complaining about anything you guys use, I'm fine with it because we have our own, I think everything is fine as it is for both sides, I only bring it up to you since you're making suggestions to nerf us when we're already struggling and have to play like a sweat just to get a couple of arrests. Sorry we don't have insane fucking aim and don't grind this game out, I actually have a life. Saying we have a kit when you yourself admitted it's garbage proves that you're just salty and only bringing it up just cause you want a nerf, don't want us to have anything up our sleeves, and want a 100% winrate against S.W.A.T.
At the end of the day, we have to rely on SSB and we admit that but only because everything else is shit.
Maybe develop your own strategies, if we are using SSB so much then stay on the highgrounds, not like you weren't doing that already.
Dying/Arrested due to SSB does not mean it needs to be nerfed.

[Wizzy]

SWAT honestly feels like a joke right now. It’s packed with features that have no limits at all, and that makes it both unrealistic and unbalanced.

Just look at this:

SWAT drone — no limitations on usage by the rules.
SWAT bomb — no limitations on usage by the rules.
SWAT climb — no limitations on usage by the rules.
SWAT vehicle modifications — no limitations on usage by the rules.
SWAT /smh — no limitations on usage by the rules.
Extended cuff and taser range — no limitations

Compare that to Army. We have some very powerful vehicles and weapons, but they’re all restricted by rules. For example, you can’t use a Hydra on orange suspects. You can’t use the Hunter minigun on anyone who’s on the ground. You can’t use any Army vehicle features without warning first.

So why has SWAT had zero restrictions since day one?

Using SSB on a single suspect makes no sense, especially when SWAT already has extended taser and cuff range. It’s overkill, and it ruins the gameplay.

If nothing else, can we at least require /su before using SSB on a solo wanted player? Or is that too much to ask?

All of the mechanics you just mentioned above have limitations, they each have a long cooldown/restriction so don't act otherwise.

Drone can only be used when there are 2 members at least, and from what I've seen no one is complaining about it since it's doing nothing, probably really hard to control aswell but I can't comment much about it since I've never used it, maybe someone who did can talk about it here.

Bomb is the obvious main topic here, but you're forgetting to mention our animation, which is like 3-4 seconds and during it we are super vulnerable, we are basically freezing ourselves for a period of time so we can freeze you in return, you can literally damage us mid animation so don't say it's an instant burst of shock when we are vulernable while using it.
And we can only carry one at a time, having to use another means a drive back to our base.

Climb is useless I guarantee you, it rarely works, heavy on the rarely, mainly because the chances are so low, that climbing anything moderately tall requires a mountain of luck, not to mention it's cooldown, but at the end, even if we use it successfully we still have to take the fight head on, it's not like it gives us a combative advantage and is only used to get close to our target.

Vehicle Modifications is only used for 2 things, nitro and inflatable tires, most of us use it when we get our tires popped, but it takes like 10 seconds for it to kick in, so if we're in a chase and our tires are gone and we use the command, it takes a long time and by that time the target can get away simply by doing a lot of turns, and us having to drive with no tires and end up crashing, even if we do have our tires back and use nitro, you can still pop them again. And nitro isn't only for S.W.A.T. so if the target also has nitro it doesn't do us anything and only makes it fair. And of course it has it's cooldown as well so don't act like there isn't any limitations.

/smh is used purely for hiding your marker, you can still see us physically, it is only used as an element of surprise and it's easy to know when S.W.A.T. is using it simply by using /loc and staying alert, like I mentioned before, on close combat, it is useless once we have been spotted, it is only used as a disguise from far away if you want to snipe without having to be seen, that is the most efficient way, doesn't give us a tactical advantage when it comes to dragging since that is our main purpose, it may work one time if we pull up on you while you're occupied, but if you're already on the road and you suddenly see us, nothing really changes. Not to mention the 15 minute cooldown, and also the bug of not being able to see our own teammates.

The increased range doesn't serve us, I mean when have you seen a S.W.A.T. taze/cuff you while you were too far to shock them back? the range is barely increased and the only reason is because we have to physically drag our criminals to jail, rather than the instant /ar normal cops use.

I don't know how SA Army works but we certainly won't be needing to use /su when we are using our weapons, S.W.A.T. is more the stealthy type, we use our weapons in secret/disguise without warning anyone, I mean imagine using /smh and pulling up on criminals, and then having to use /su to completely blow your cover and ruin the element of surprise. It's stupid.
SA Army is the more heavy machinery type, extremely obvious but very powerful in terms of raw damage, which is why they have to use /su, they are also completely immune to shock, so it is not fair to give us restrictions that you have to use that aren't compatible with us.

If seniors actually read what I'm saying they will understand that most of our kit is not useful, atleast not with it's heavy cooldowns, if you actually want us to use our other special weapons then buff our stuff.

[saeeddi]

"lmao "we accept our loss and move on", no u dont, you literally just admitted you spam a broken stun cuz your too scared to lose a fair fight. saying 'relying on the meta is being smart' is just a long way of saying you cant aim for shit without a ssb. if you actually had mentality you’d want to win because you’re better at the game, not because youre abusing a zero cd exploit. And stop crying about driving to a checkpoint or dragging suspects. That’s literally the role u signed up for? your complaining about basic gameplay mechanics while defending a literal game-breaking spam. 'we have it harder' bro you have a team, heavy and a kit made to catch people. If you still need a stun-loop on top of all that just to get a single cuff, that’s a massive skill issue. Also the jammer argument is still braindead. Your basically saying 'i’m gonna keep using this broken glitch-tier item until you pay the BM money to stop me.' That’s not 'facts,' thats just u being a sweat who’s terrified of a meta where you actually have to try. Go ahead and keep spamming it since 'theres no rule against it,' but don’t act like your some tactical genius for pressing one button over and over. You’re just proving the game is cooked if the only way SWAT can function is by freezing people. stay salty tho."

I didn't admit anything? I'm not the one who brought up this suggestion and I barely play nowadays. I actually do use SSB effectively only in situations that are actually necessary, usually when I'm outnumbered or as a last resort when I'm really low HP, which is basically 99% of the time. "Too scared to lose a fair fight" is just plain bullshit, when most of you have heals copy-pasted and run away somewhere. Obviously I don't want to lose and neither does anyone else so why would we not give our all to a fight? Like I said there is no honor here, when you're in a cophunt do you seperate due to the low number of S.W.A.T. and try to make it fair or do you stay on it and remain a literal minigun on top of a vehicle? Exactly, Stop using your emotions to argue when I'm looking at it from both prespectives, cause unlike you I actually have experience in both being a S.W.A.T. member and as well as being a criminal, I'm not crying about anything mentioning dragging suspects, we did sign up for it, but we also signed up for our special weapons, you talk about a fair fight when most of you use snipers on rooftops, stay in houses/jefferson motel with chainsaws or hold it down like a fort, constantly using heliblades and running away to heal when you're low, these aren't fair strategies but they're part of the game, you can use them any way you see fit and you don't see us complaining, we adapt and use our own methods to catch you, stop complaining about the usage of a mechanic that was purposefully meant to be powerful. Still refusing to just accept having a SSB Jammer, you're gonna be upset that you have to spend a bit of money while everyone here has hundreds of jailcards and don't bother doing any jail time, what happened to that part of the game? it was countered by pay to win, so don't talk to me about pay to win when you own luxury houses and use them as a getaway vehicle.
Nowadays combat is so cooked that we can't even have a fair fight because of how many bullshit strategies you pull, it's near impossible for us to catch someone alone because of various situations, even chasing them with a vehicle is hard because of nitro. Our tazer runs out first, taze ref, cuff kit, and I'm not a sweat who plays this game everyday for hours and has lighting SOC, if you're not Grand level of SOC then you will simply just run out of your tazer and have to chase them and most of the time you end up dying cause you're getting sniped from 3 different angles, criminals have become so active that there is rarely anyone who is 'alone'
And no ones thinking they're a tactical genius for using SSB, complaining that S.W.A.T. uses freezing mechanics while the entire purpose of S.W.A.T. is that, and I'm not complaining about anything you guys use, I'm fine with it because we have our own, I think everything is fine as it is for both sides, I only bring it up to you since you're making suggestions to nerf us when we're already struggling and have to play like a sweat just to get a couple of arrests. Sorry we don't have insane fucking aim and don't grind this game out, I actually have a life. Saying we have a kit when you yourself admitted it's garbage proves that you're just salty and only bringing it up just cause you want a nerf, don't want us to have anything up our sleeves, and want a 100% winrate against S.W.A.T.
At the end of the day, we have to rely on SSB and we admit that but only because everything else is shit.
Maybe develop your own strategies, if we are using SSB so much then stay on the highgrounds, not like you weren't doing that already.
Dying/Arrested due to SSB does not mean it needs to be nerfed.

bro u literally wrote a whole essay just to admit at the end that u 'have to rely' on ssb cuz everything else is shit. thanks for proving my point?? if u cant function without a zero cooldown stun then thats the definition of a skill issue. u talk about 'strategies' but then defend a cmd that deletes the other persons ability to even move. how is that a strategy?
and dont even try to compare snipers or using high ground to a SSB where you just have to type a cmd at least u have to aim a sniper u have to time heals. u have to actually drive to use nitro. all u do is mash one key the second u start losing a fight and call it 'tactical.'

[Commander]

SWAT honestly feels like a joke right now. It’s packed with features that have no limits at all, and that makes it both unrealistic and unbalanced.

Just look at this:

SWAT drone — no limitations on usage by the rules.
SWAT bomb — no limitations on usage by the rules.
SWAT climb — no limitations on usage by the rules.
SWAT vehicle modifications — no limitations on usage by the rules.
SWAT /smh — no limitations on usage by the rules.
Extended cuff and taser range — no limitations

Compare that to Army. We have some very powerful vehicles and weapons, but they’re all restricted by rules. For example, you can’t use a Hydra on orange suspects. You can’t use the Hunter minigun on anyone who’s on the ground. You can’t use any Army vehicle features without warning first.

So why has SWAT had zero restrictions since day one?

Using SSB on a single suspect makes no sense, especially when SWAT already has extended taser and cuff range. It’s overkill, and it ruins the gameplay.

If nothing else, can we at least require /su before using SSB on a solo wanted player? Or is that too much to ask?

Well explained

[Panadol]

Spoiler: show

SWAT honestly feels like a joke right now. It’s packed with features that have no limits at all, and that makes it both unrealistic and unbalanced.

Just look at this:

SWAT drone — no limitations on usage by the rules.
SWAT bomb — no limitations on usage by the rules.
SWAT climb — no limitations on usage by the rules.
SWAT vehicle modifications — no limitations on usage by the rules.
SWAT /smh — no limitations on usage by the rules.
Extended cuff and taser range — no limitations

Compare that to Army. We have some very powerful vehicles and weapons, but they’re all restricted by rules. For example, you can’t use a Hydra on orange suspects. You can’t use the Hunter minigun on anyone who’s on the ground. You can’t use any Army vehicle features without warning first.

So why has SWAT had zero restrictions since day one?

Using SSB on a single suspect makes no sense, especially when SWAT already has extended taser and cuff range. It’s overkill, and it ruins the gameplay.

If nothing else, can we at least require /su before using SSB on a solo wanted player? Or is that too much to ask?

And that is literally what I meant by adding "rules" there should be limitations just like army.

[Veen]

Hello everyone, I see that the SSB subject has emerged once again, which at this point feels like a déjà vu.

I’m going to state my opinion on the key points that the majority of you have raised here. I would also like to remind everyone that your input is appreciated,however, please refrain from getting personal with the users involved.

– S.W.A.T uses the SSB multiple times in one encounter

It’s quite strange to see some of you use this argument when it clearly revolves around wasting bombs. Many of you explain how S.W.A.T is intended to operate using special strategic plans, but you’re missing the core aspect of our faction, which is dragging and escorting suspects all the way to PD checkpoints.

If this means anything, you may lose when S.W.A.T engages you and uses multiple SSBs, but there is still a long journey ahead where S.W.A.T members must escort you. This process often faces many obstacles such as rammers, helicopters wiping the team, mechanics, hitmen shooting while only one person is able to retaliate, and cherry on top, you being able to break cuffs multiple times during the process.

– S.W.A.T uses the SSB even when dealing with one suspect

There is no such thing as truly dealing with just one suspect. Suspects have no restrictions when it comes to engaging on S.W.A.T, which means that even if the team is going after a single person, it’s very likely that other users will interfere whether by sniping, popping tires, or any other scenario players choose, as mentioned in my previous point.

This means that having rules that limit SSB usage only to nearby suspects can be abused in many ways.

– Black Market items cost money and do not help enough against S.W.A.T

If we are to consider making changes, it should be to address the overall situation. Many of you are complaining about losing when S.W.A.T engages you, but in reality, you still have many chances before getting arrested. I will be sharing a video where a suspect was doing just fine alone, without any BM items. Please keep in mind that the BC success rate has not received any changes since that period.



– The server has a lower online player count and the SSB feels more impactful

This affects both sides. I can confidently say that S.W.A.T has also suffered from this, considering I have access to S.W.A.T playtime data. A S.W.A.T team now usually consists of only two users. Given how many of you emphasize how “special” S.W.A.T should be, I trust you also believe it should be a faction that suspects would rather run away from instead of engaging.


The topic will remain open for feedback. Any idea that receives majority support and is appropriate for the current state may be considered.

[Karu_Tepes]

Regarding your feedback Veen, I do not disagree. The main point of SWAT is to be a challenge. When the LSPD needs help with large amounts of criminals, they should be calling SWAT or Army. In a fight, a criminals and an the LSPD should be 100% equal, because neither are factions. SWAT and Army, as factions, should be unequal, because those are FACTIONS with very high hiring standards. Not every jackass with a gun and a pair of handcuffs gets to be in those factions, you have to EARN the right to be overpowered. As a criminal, you should fear it when SWAT or Army pulls up, it should mean you have officially fucked up and now you have an actual challenge on your hand.

Now, my two points of contention, if I may be so bold as to offer them, is that one... criminals should also have someone to call. Obviously that should be Pagati. Not because I currently run it, but because it's literally the criminal faction. Pagati should be equipped to counter SWAT and Army because we are the official criminal faction with similar hiring practices... we don't just hire any asshole with a gun and a crowbar. Instead of nerfing SWAT who should be a challenge, we should buff Pagati so that it's a more equal fight between the two. Think of it like when Pagati shows up, the criminals leave because Pagati is going to start a bloodbath on the cops. This is also why it's rare for me to encourage cop hunting with outside members when with Pagati. While we should assist them, we should be going at the other factions as a defense, not an offense. Rest assured if Pagati is on the hunt under me, it's because the cops have gone too far and made themselves a problem for everyone.

Second, I think SWAT needs to stop going at unwanted users. I say that because it's not uncommon for me to be repeatedly searched by SWAT when I am unwanted simply because they want a free cuff. They should actively be going after people wanted, not harassing Pagati because it's likely we're carrying illegal good, but unwanted at the time. And that goes doubly so for the SSB when we are claiming hits. I said earlier that someone used the SSB on me while I was UNWANTED, and no one around me was wanted, because the SWAT member had a hit. That, to me, is not done in good faith. That is using a tool with a known bug to escape a hit. The fact I saw that user brought up by others also leads me to believe this may not be a SWAT issue, but rather a personal issue where someone is going a bit overboard with their new toy, and maybe we should focus on addressing that. I'm not going to call that person out by name though, as you asked us to not get personal.